But first, a history of the writer;
Hello, I'm Trexid, I write as a devoted MMORPG player with a passion for traditional MMO experiences reminiscent of classics like Everquest. I've been playing Everquest and other MMORPG's since 1999, I've also played Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Elder Scrolls online, Final Fantasy 14, and now Pantheon: Rise of the fallen.

I first pledged to Pantheon in 2018, and then became a VIP Supporter in November of 2022. I've been active in the community, brought a lot of friends to play the game, and actively stream the game on Twitch.

I'll share my review of the game that I posted on Steam which I hope will share my view of the game and hope for it to succeed:
(link to my Pantheon Steam Review)
"Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen is a game-changer in the world of MMORPGs, offering a powerfully social experience that resonates deeply with fans of old school MMOs while also bringing fresh and exciting features to the genre. For veterans of classic games, it provides that much-missed challenge and community-centric gameplay, making every quest feel like an epic journey.

For new-age MMO enthusiasts, Pantheon is a breath of fresh air—easy to pick up and play, yet deep enough to keep you captivated for years of adventure and exploration. The world of Terminus is teeming with opportunities to make new friends and forge lasting alliances as you navigate its rich, immersive landscapes.

Under the visionary leadership of Creative Director Joppa Vash, Pantheon is not just a game; it's a revival of what made MMOs legendary. It stands as a testament to Brad McQuaid's enduring legacy, ensuring that his vision for EverQuest continues to inspire and unite players. Pantheon brings players together to cooperate, socialize, and build social capital, encouraging camaraderie as they band together to vanquish dragons, conquer dungeons, and face formidable foes."

-Trexid

The Issue: "a growing concern..."

As part of this dedicated gaming community, I've noticed a growing concern about the implementation of "Group Mobs" or "Chevron Mobs" in the game Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen™.

The introduction of these mobs to the game serves to increase the difficulty level artificially. They disrupt not only the gaming experience but tug the game away from the comforting embrace of a Classic MMO. This change distances Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen™ from traditional MMO gaming elements that have piqued the interest and dedication of players like myself, individuals who value originality and authentic gaming experiences.

While the developers might argue that increased difficulty enhances player engagement, it's important to note that alterations like these are a departure from what the gaming community seeks from traditional MMO games. We want an immersive game experience, not inflated difficulty settings that serve more as obstacles than enhancements.

I urge the game developers to consider the implications of this decision on its loyal player base and to bring Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen™ back to its classic MMO roots. Please sign this petition to remove Group/Chevron Mobs from Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen™ and preserve our beloved classic MMO gameplay experience.

Overview
Community feedback paints a clear picture: the current implementation of group mobs (Chevrons) in Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen™ is widely seen as an artificial method of scaling difficulty that forces players into full six-member parties—even in areas that traditionally accommodated solo or small-group play.

Many argue that this shift makes the game feel less like the strategic, skill-based EverQuest experience and more like a mainstream cookie cutter World of Warcraft–style MMO. 

This design not only hurts the game’s playability and cohesion but also alienates a large segment of the player base, especially those who prefer to solo or play in smaller groups. This includes those of us who are looking for a new MMO with the feel of a classic MMO.

Some quotes on the matter from the community.

“Classic MMORPG’s are Goated” -Joppa Vash -Pantheon Creative Director

"This is what EQ did, everything is technically a soloable mob. Difficulty mostly came from density." -Redbeardflynn from Pantheon Discord Community

"If the majority of the players don't like Chevrons Mobs it probably shouldn't be in the game, yet." -Lewin (Casuallyeast)

"Elite mobs have a place in the game, and that is at level 46+ Raid content. We don't need a visual representation of "Elite" Raid mobs." -Khuros/Noble

"Be ready to block out your entire day to get a group going to explore any worthwhile content on Pantheon. If you can’t fill or join a group in Pantheon right now, you can go fight in the one spot in the zone with 20 others that don’t have time to join a full group." -Worn

"Remove chevrons and "fix" combat formulas" -Renarius

"I’ve literally never been in a chevron group without a full group" -Onelove from Pantheon Discord

"I am not a fan of chevrons either.. much prefer the EQ method instead of this group are super soldiers and this is John from the mailroom." -Qwen

"Imagine a zone like Unrest, Castle Mistmoore or Lower Guk with only group mobs. The content wouldn't be fun." -Hotkittenz & Hotbunniez

“Right now they have two games, a 6-man group/raid based dungeon game, and a solo game that are completely separated” -SaltedHash99 -from Pantheon Community

"I don't play this game to have some white knuckle experience, I get that in other MMOs, I play this for old school EQ laid back macro gameplay... not micro. The game just doesn't "Feel" fun to sit back, RELAX, and play." -Isthissparta from Blackmoon Server (day 3 of playing EA)

"Imagine Halnir Cave with non group mobs.  There would be duos, trios, and even quartets all throughout the dungeon xping, facing challenging content and having fun.  Instead we have a single group of six at the entrance because they are afraid of going in further due to loss of xp and time lost getting back to their bodies, if they are even able to get six people to form the group to begin with." -Anasmina

"No, no, no..." -TooTiredTooCare

"My last Pantheon gameplay session ended trying to form a 6-man group for Goblin Caves eventually broke up trying to fill the last slot after an hour and a half of searching for our 6th member of the group" -RektRalph from Canada

"I have become a down with chevron type of guy since their introduction. It just sets up this line in the sand and kinda kills the fun of seeing what you can do." -Spof from Pantheon Discord

"In EQ you felt like your character had some level of control over the world. In this the world controls you. For example you might solo an equal level goblin, then walk into a nearby cave and fight an equal level "chevron goblin" that takes 6 people to kill. Feels unimmersive and fake. Like the monsters and players are playing by completely different rulesets." -ManTower -from Pantheon Steam Community

"You put up invisible walls and guide rails and you lose the magic. You don't need to make it arbitrary, you just need to design it like a DM would. The world needs to be alive, real, and mobs need to exist in their own environment." -DranoTheCat from the Reddit Pantheon Community.

"The chevron system reminds me more of elites in wow and such than it does of any of the truly old-school mmorpgs. It does make it feel less like a true viritual world, more like a game. And i am not fan. While I do enjoy the game, or even the difficulty at times. That part does make it a lot less interesting, it is a very rigid game so far. Little true freedom, something that those old games generally was all about. They were a lot more sandbox than this has proven to be so far. Of course things may change but the chevron idea seems such a built in part of the game that I don't see that changing in any meeningful manner. I am sad about that, for the most part I see Pantheon as a game with huge potential but this limits in so many ways." -Elari000 from the Reddit Pantheon Community.

A quote from Renarius on 8/26/2024 from the Official Pantheon Discord. This scenario is currently the state of Pantheon as of March 2025.

 

 

 

 

1.Key Issues with Group Mobs

• Complaint Against Group Mobs:
  Players contend that group mobs ruin the game by shifting the focus from individual skill and tactical play (a hallmark of classic EverQuest) toward a forced raid-like experience. This change is viewed as a move toward mainstream MMO design, which many in the community strongly oppose. There is currently no place in the game that feels appropriate for a group of two, three, or four players. The gameplay experience becomes unenjoyable.
• Disproportionate Difficulty and Time Investment vs. Xp Gain:
  Group mobs come with inflated health pools and enhanced damage mitigation, significantly extending the time-to-kill (TTK) compared to standard mobs. Despite the extra time and heightened risk—including the potential for wipes—these mobs provide little to no additional experience, making leveling inefficient and content inaccessible to small groups and solo play.
• Group Mob Traits - Combine a group mobs artificially inflated stats with the group mob traits like, Spell Nullifier, Spell Slinger, Acrobatic, Iron Willed, the intent was for players to recruit specific classes to be in your group to mitigate these mob traits to play the content. Instead, this has created a homogenization of classes where all classes can overcome chevron mob traits. Players being forced to use armor reducing abilities to even clear group mobs feels bad. It should be a net damage bonus, not a requirement to deal damage in the first place. Players should feel happy and excited to have a debuff, instead of feeling upset that you don't have the required class with the correct debuff unable to do the content. Debuffs feel like something you have to do, before you're allowed to play the game. It shouldn't be a prerequisite. A named mob should be difficult to kill, but, average dungeon group mobs with traits and inflated stats feel the same as killing a named mob currently (more on this under Alternative Solutions). It also requires that you have a perfectly balanced group to attempt content where mobs have two or more active traits with inflated hp, damage and mitigation. The traits should be the difficulty curve for deeper dungeon content. The traits are great, but the combination of artificially inflated mob stats creates a need for an unrealistic group dynamic that is time consuming and difficult to find.

2. Loss of Player Agency and Strategic Depth

• Manufactured Difficulty: Instead of relying on encounter design—such as mob density, positioning, or environmental challenges—to create difficulty, the current approach simply ups mob stats. Regardless of the class of the mob, the mob is always going to be both high health and defense as well as high damage. There is no variation in mob identity. Even caster type mobs in Pantheon are tanky and can do high physical damage which isn't cohesive. In old school MMO's/EQ you knew you had to kill Wizards first because they are extremely high damage but very low health.
• Lack of Tactical Options: In games like EverQuest, players had tools and tactics (like isolating individual mobs) that allowed for flexibility regardless of group size. The new system forces a “one-size-fits-all” approach that diminishes the strategic element and makes it feel as if the game is dictating playstyle with group mobs imposing challenges that leave little room for player agency or tactical choice, rather than allowing player choice. High density was the difficulty barrier for small groups, you wouldn't be able to clear a pack of five mobs as a solo warrior without employing clever usage of game mechanics. Chevron mobs are close to impossible to solo or small group from the start, and the long time to kill doesn't make it worthwhile.
• Excessive artificial difficulty Imposed by Group Mobs:—Especially at dungeon entrances—discourages and prevents new players, solo players and small groups from venturing deeper into content. This has the unintended effect of transforming most dungeons into raid-like experiences. Limiting overall game accessibility and exploration. For example, Halnirs Cave can only support one group at the entrance of the dungeon which causes a bottle neck effect. If that spot is taken a second group of similar level range players must leave the dungeon and look for some place else to gain Xp. The difficulty wall to push further into the dungeon does not scale properly with a players experience of the game, character level, player dynamics or time constraints. So, moving further into the dungeon feels like too much of an investment and not worth the risk / reward which pushes people back into overworld non-group content. Effectively splitting the group and making people go solo or duo.
• Every Dungeon and Group Mob is a 6-man RAID: Visionary Realms Developers have effectively made every dungeon and group-mob area a 6-man Raid encounter. This removes the choice players should have to play the game how they would like to play it. This forces small groups to hunt non-group mobs in the overworld inefficiently, as they are not welcome in a group of 2-4 players inside of dungeons. There are not pockets of players hunting Halnirs Cave because it’s not accessible to them. This reduces the overall population of the dungeon and available player pool to join larger groups. It should be possible for players to participate in a dungeon if they can solve a mob density problem or can slowly carve their way into a named camp, not be locked out due to artificially inflated mob stats. 
• Unenjoyable and Inefficient Leveling: Because of the extra time needed to clear these group-mob encounters — and the higher risk of wipes — the experience yield per minute is significantly lower even in a 6-man group. This forces many players to begrudgingly grind non-group mobs. Players then struggle to find or recruit a full six-member group to push further into the dungeon, for loot and relatively bad Xp gain. 

3. Forced Grouping and Alienation of Non-Raid Players

• Solo and Small Group vs. Forced Group Play: 
  The design forces players into large, six-member groups, which penalizes those who prefer solo play or small parties of 2-4 friends. Many find that solo play is more efficient for leveling, and more accessible, while grouping against these mobs not only lowers Xp gains but also increases risk and overall time commitment and time waste searching far and wide for party members. If there were people solo'ing in pockets of a dungeon like Halnirs cave, that keeps the zone healthy, and players can reach out locally to recruit missing classes to a party to engage harder content like named camps. Right now, the entire dungeon is setup like a single named camp and there is no room for solo and small group play.
• Content Is Designed for Full Groups Only: Group mobs are tuned for a full party of six, effectively punishing players who cannot or prefer not to assemble a complete group or have time constraints. A place like Hangore should have mobs that players can solo or small groups can fight and should have access to. This content is locked behind the time requirement of filling a group and all members having a large block of time to commit moving deeper into the dungeon to either camp a named mob or even just Xp grind.
• Reduced Accessibility: For smaller parties or solo players, dungeons become far more challenging than intended, pushing a large segment of the community away from exploring dungeon content and limiting overall game accessibility.
• Dungeon Accessibility Issues and Sustaining Group Populations:
  If one player leaves the group they must find a way to exit the dungeon safely and reset to the dungeon entrance to recruit a new member. Because the content is not possible with a three, four or even a five man group. The group cannot continue to play in the dungeon and must stop, retreat, recruit and wait for a new group member. There is no way for someone to easily run to the top of the dungeon, cast invisibility on the new party member and rejoin the group, unless you have very specific classes in your group. Even with this method, the remaining party of four group members are left extremely vulnerable to a wipe(death).

"Well, if it's forced grouping all the time that pretty much would end the game for me. I want to group but I am often stuck there for hours unable to get or even start a one because X role can't be filled" -Qwen from Pantheon Discord.

"There is a huge huge huge gap between "forced grouping" and "grouping is way more efficient than soloing". To me this should be the aim. If it's faster/more efficient to make experience soloing that's an issue for a "group focused" game." -Jezebel from Pantheon Discord

"Gone are the days of solo exploring a brand new dungeon (IE.Lower Guk), trying to find a place to take a friend or two with the hopes of  farming gear or having a fun experience." -Khuros

Alternative Solutions

• Scale Difficulty Through Encounter Design:
  Rather than relying solely on inflating mob stats (HP, mitigation, Damage etc.), use encounter design elements such as mob density, positioning, mob classes, and dynamic environmental challenges that will help players choose encounters that suit their preferred play style. Instead of forcing them into the same game loop and requiring a full 6-man group to even step into a dungeon (Halnirs & Hangore). Instead of every mob feeling the exact same to fight and having a flat percentage based stat inflation, mobs should have unique stats and classes. An example of this is; A white con chevron humanoid bandit and a white con chevron wolf feel exactly the same to fight. The damage mitigation is the same on both even though the bandit might be wearing chain armor which should mitigate more damage. Mobs should feel unique and the chevron system gets rid of that. If a mob spawns with an item it should also be benefiting from the effects of that item and be holding the item or weapon. See A frenzied ghoul. If the mob has the FBSS equipped, it's much harder to kill because his attack speed is now 21% faster wearing the FBSS haste belt. This is another method for difficulty scaling.
• Reserve Difficult Mobs for Appropriate Content:
  Limit more difficult Raid content to designated Raid instances or clearly marked endgame areas (such as specific “pinnacle” zones), or rare spawn named mobs. In most dungeons, reintroduce solo-friendly or small-group (2–4 player) mobs to maintain a gradual difficulty curve that rewards both individual skill and tactical group play. Remove group mobs and group mob traits from the majority of  dungeons and allow players to exist in dungeons without a full group. Named mobs should be the tougher mobs. They should have more health, more mitigation, and more damage output. Currently, it feels the same to kill a named mob as it does to kill any other dungeon trash mob. This causes an underwhelming feeling for players.

Conclusion
This petition and the signees clearly indicate that, as currently implemented, group mobs are hurting Pantheon’s playability by imposing a raid-like experience on content that should be accessible to solo players or small groups. The design not only creates a disproportionate time investment versus reward ratio and forces inefficient grouping but also discourages new players from engaging with deeper dungeon content. By rebalancing encounters—reserving full-group challenges for raid or endgame zones, employing smarter encounter design, and adjusting rewards accordingly—developers can create a more welcoming game that stays true to its EverQuest-inspired roots while remaining accessible and enjoyable for all players.

Players that are currently disenchanted with Pantheon:Rise of the Fallen™ due to these issues with group mobs are stuck waiting for the game to feel fun to play again. Currently, its an all or nothing issue. Either you have a full group to play with, you go solo by yourself on non-group mobs, or log out of the game.

The inability of players to choose how they want to play is being forced into a linear style that removes player choice and limits how players can experience the game. Being put on a specific linear treadmill is not appealing to most players who have moved from other classic MMORPG's to Pantheon.

We all want this game to succeed!

Thank you for your signature!

And thank you to Visionary Realms and Pantheon Developers for considering this change to the game. If you would like to discuss further with myself or the folks that helped to craft this petition, please reach out to me directly on the Pantheon Discord. (same user name)

-Trexid
(more below)

 

 

Would you like to know more?

mobs: solo or 6 people, no inbetween? - A thread on Reddit from 2 months ago, a lot of accurate sentiment here.

A new players opinion on group mobs. - Point # 1 on his post - A thread on Reddit of a new players experience with chevron mobs

 

 

 

 

If you're still with me here; I've combed through Discord, Steam, Reddit and Official Pantheon forums discussing this topic.

I've specifically ran a 7 page post from Steam and had ChatGPT analyze both sides of the argument so that you don't have to read through the thread.

Link to the original discussion: Chevron mobs are dumb

"Original Post from Steam Pantheon Community - FarmForReal
They add nothing, and take away the ability to explore and try things. I've ran into several mobs whos opening attack is a root ability. Who in the ♥♥♥♥ designed THAT trash? I love a challenge and I've played all the full loot MMOS to the end. But this isn't a challenge, its just a outright DENIAL. Then half the other camps have mobs that will "death touch" you and hit you with abilities that take 3/4 of your life! Ok so get good right? except my class doesn't even have an interrupt so now those are out of the question too. I don't have the time to search a group, sit down and ignore life for several hours on end with them. You've excluded me, games not fun."

Summary of the Discussion

Context:
Players are debating the design of "chevron mobs" in Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen. The chevron system is used to mark certain mobs as tougher—essentially scaling their hit points, damage, and abilities—to signal that they’re intended for group (or “team”) encounters rather than solo play.

Pros (Arguments in Favor of the Chevron System)

• Enhanced Challenge and Rewards:
  • Supporters argue that chevrons provide a clear indicator of increased difficulty, which in turn means better experience points and loot. This is seen as a natural way to reward players who take on tougher, group-based content.
• Promotion of Group Play:
  
  • The system encourages players to form balanced groups, which some feel is core to the MMO experience. It forces players to work together rather than letting everyone progress solo.
• Design Intent and Future Tuning:
  
  • Some believe the chevron system is part of a broader design philosophy—similar in concept to systems in games like World of Warcraft (WoW)—and that it can be tuned over time to bridge the gap between solo and group content. A developer update even mentioned that adjusting these “dials” is a priority.

Cons (Arguments Against the Chevron System)

• Artificial and Overcomplicated:
  • Critics contend that the system is merely a “copy-paste” method of increasing mob stats without adding real depth. It is seen as an unnecessary gimmick that interrupts natural gameplay.
• Restricts Exploration and Solo and Small Group Play:
  • Many feel that chevron mobs unnecessarily block solo and small group exploration. Players who prefer or rely on solo play are frustrated that even lower-tier enemies become too challenging when marked with a chevron.
• Negative Impact on Immersion:
  • Several posters argue that the visual and mechanical emphasis on chevrons breaks immersion. Instead of a seamless world, it creates a binary division between “solo” and “group” zones.
• Forced Group Dynamics: 
  • The system is criticized for mandating a “perfect” group setup for certain encounters. This leaves little room for creativity or alternative strategies (like duos or odd-ball groups), echoing complaints about older systems that overly enforced role requirements. 

Overall Sentiment Toward the Chevron System

• Mixed Feelings: 
  • The discussion is highly divided. Some players are willing to accept the chevron system as a necessary tool to shape group content and provide a challenging experience. Others dislike it for feeling forced, overly artificial, and exclusionary to solo players.
• Desire for Balance and Flexibility:
  • A recurring theme is the call for a more nuanced system—one that maintains a sense of challenge without rigidly forcing group play or splitting the game world into isolated “zones.” Many participants expressed nostalgia for older systems (like EQ’s con system) that allowed more organic solo-versus-group dynamics.
• Future Adjustments Hoped For: Several posts mention that with proper tuning—such as adjusting mob tether ranges, balancing hit points and damage, or even considering removing the chevron, the  game could be tuned to allow solo exploration, small group (2-4 players) and RAID group content.

TLDR; Summary

In short, while some players appreciate the chevron system for its intent to create challenging, group-focused encounters with better rewards, many others dislike it because they feel it overcomplicates gameplay, forces rigid group dynamics, and diminishes the freedom and immersion of exploring the game world solo and removes player agency from the game.

"This mechanic is going to kill Pantheon (group only mobs). If you took a poll right now I would guess that the majority of people are out there soloing now, even though it’s a “group” game lol. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. EQ is one of the best mmos ever made (classic EQ) along with DAOC and EQOA. None of these had artificial mechanics like group only mobs…heck you could even solo some raid mobs in EQ if you dare. That’s the fun! No restrictions. Immersion. This is why most of us are here. If they don’t get rid of this mechanic im afraid Monsters and Memories is gunna delete Pantheon." -Ownerj from Reddit's Pantheon Community

A recent post on the Official Pantheon Discord on the subject:
Group Mobs are too punishing. OP: Syntax

"This is by far the worst design choice in Pantheon and really hope they rethink it. EQ had all mobs on a baseline consistently scaling difficulty based on their level/expansion and it created a much more cohesive gameplay experience. Artificially inflating basic mob stats for the sole reason of dictating a certain type of play is antithetical to the spirit of old school MMORPGs from which this is supposed to be based on. The real issue here is likely the team trying to make sure there is solo content for everyone which just dilutes the niche that the game is supposed to be, a social game. I fear by the end we'll just end up with a early wow clone with more flavor text and 3x the required experience to reach max level.

You can say "oh but you can 3 man them!" but its a terrible experience that currently works because DL/PAL have game-breaking levels of sustain that surely will not remain in the game indefinitely."

 -posted by [deleted] from Reddit's Pantheon Community

"Our group of 3 even ran into this issue. Chevron cons range was too wide so the moment a light orange spawned we missed too much/risky+recovery time. Non Chevron mobs gave terrible exp or camps were too small.

I hope they address the chevrons, density, or something to help smaller groups progress at a decent pace.

Feels bad at this group size to seem like you're better off playing solo instead of with your friends. We don't mind grouping for named or deep into dungeons, but sometimes it's nice to relax with just friends." -MortonAssaultGirl Reddit Pantheon Community

 Thoughts from the Author:

I've been playing Pantheon since as soon as I could get access to the game in 2022. I've recruited friends, gone on amazing adventures, seen all there is to see in Pantheon. The changes to the combat by use of the Chevron system has become largest barrier to me continuing to want to play Pantheon. I believe in this project, the team behind it, and the community, and I would love for the game to continue to grow.

I feel strongly that this issue is a large barrier to a lot of players who have tried Pantheon, but are are currently disenchanted with the current state of the game. Since we're still in Early Access, this is a great time to revert these changes before we lose anymore momentum.

Thank you for taking the time to read through our petition!

Onward and upward!

-Trexid

A big THANK YOU to everyone who helped me craft the petition, proof read, gather info and share perspectives. If you would like a quote removed from the petition please reach out to me on Discord.